So I’ve made one blog in the past about my view on Intergender wrestling, there has been a big thing with someone tweeting Jimmy Havoc saying it is ruining wrestling so I thought I’d make another one making my views even clearer on the subject.
This guy, who I won’t mention on here because he doesn’t really deserve to be named, started tweeting in that condescending manner to ALL MALE WRESTLERS to let them know how they are destroying the business. He went on to let us all know over the last day or so that women are incapable of beating men and comparing professional wrestling to UFC and proper real competitive contact sports.
He was repeatedly told that wrestling isn’t real even by Jimmy Havoc which seemed to upset him more because why would Jimmy Havoc tell him wrestling is fake…
I mean he was one of those people who had a opinion and didn’t want to change it in anyway he just wanted to preach it with no actual proof of his claims just accusations. He even went as far as tweeting Jim Cornette and blaming the fans.
A few points that he seemed to make which I disagree with.
First up it is not impossible for men to be beaten by women, it is a extremely dangerous opinion to hold. Never ever believe that women are incapable of beating men and never make men feel they can’t be beaten by women. It happens. Men and women come in all shapes and sizes with all different kinds of personalities and morals, sure there are differences in our builds that mean that professionally and in general males are going to be stronger, tougher and more able to put down a woman but the idea that men just CAN’T be beaten by women is just dangerous.
OK that is less to do with beating a woman in a physical contest but overall his opinion seemed to be that Intergender wrestling will make men believe they can beat up women and that women couldn’t defend themselves against men. I just want to point out that one of the most toxic point of views out there is that female on male violence isn’t as bad as male on female violence. Its a stepping stone to men not being able to be victims of domestic abuse and men not being able to be raped.
Bit of a jump you think?
Well so is thinking watching a Intergender match is promoting male on female violence in general. More on that in a second.
Thing is the whole “women can’t beat men” thing comes down to two things. First off it depends on the woman and the man and secondly its all about the story they tell and whether they tell it well.
I have seen Nixon Newell in Intergender matches with men twice her size and it looked great. I’ve also seen Brandi Rhodes vs Prince Ameen which was turned into nothing more then a comedy thing and looked awful. I really want to see Jimmy Havoc vs Jinny because I have great respect for both of their talents and think it’ll be a great match, personally as much of a Havoc fan I am I think Jinny is the better wrestler in general so think she can more then hold her own in a match against him. When it comes to Havoc’s strengths in the ring not even many males can hold their own against him, the beautiful sick human being he is.
Basically it comes down to whether you want to believe it’ll work and whether the wrestlers make you believe no matter how skeptical you are.
Personally I don’t care if he has a penis or not by Rey Mysterio should not be beating half the men he does beat, the David and Goliath story IS the story in many ways of a Intergender match so if it can work for someone like Rey why can’t it work for women?
Mainly I guess because people don’t want it to work. If you can believe Rey can beat a man three times his size and five times his weight (exaggerated but you know what I mean) then why can’t a talented female beat a man about the same size and weight as her? Why can’t she be the Delilah to their Samson?
One match I’ve seen that comes to mind is one I saw back along down here with my absolute favourite female wrestler regardless of how often I see her wrestle or anything else Adira facing a young guy called JP. Now he was small, scrawny and still pretty new into wrestling, she was slightly more trained and bigger then him. In no light could you look at the two and go “he’s going to beat her” and he didn’t. Because he shouldn’t have. Because it would have been less believable that he could beat her.
It can happen. Trust me.
Its because you don’t want to believe it. Sure its a sign, a good one at that, of the times. Male on female violence is frowned upon and it makes us uncomfortable because its ingrained into our minds that it is wrong.
Then again violence of any kind is wrong and female on male violence should be wrong too.
So when someone like Vicky Haskins gets involved in a match and does what she does to a male why aren’t you screaming out ATTENTION ALL FEMALE WRESTLERS/MANAGERS and calling them out?
As a society its because we keep telling women they are weaker and therefore a man getting a slap from a woman is fine so long as that man knows his place and doesn’t lay a finger on the woman.
Does that mean that two wrestlers, fully consenting to a match and both equally beating the other to hell and back is wrong? I guess that is up for you to decide but a decent Intergender match will be the same as any other wrestling match and if you really have that much of a problem with wrestling you might not want to watch it at all. Before anyone says anything I’m not saying if you dislike Intergender matches you are wrong, you can like whatever types of wrestling you want but trying to make out one is wrong because one type of violence is wrong whilst other types of violence isn’t just makes no sense. Its a wrestling match. Its wrestling. Two people wrestling. You don’t have to like the match type of the competitors in the ring but no matter who they are its violent and society should frown on all types of violence equally.
This then leads to two more problems with his argument.
Firstly how sexist it is telling women what they should and shouldn’t, can and can’t do.
Secondly its tarring people who enjoy this type of wrestling as something they aren’t.
Going with the first train of thought the whole argument this guy has is that women CAN’T fight men, in his opinion, so they SHOULDN’T. He doesn’t even care about the opinion of Jinny, the woman in question in the match against Havoc, because he’s so sure that he’s in the right that who cares what a woman thinks?
I don’t care if he thinks that isn’t what he’s doing but it is. He’s so busy telling us women that we can’t do this and that promoters shouldn’t book highly trained professionals to be in matches with other highly trained professionals he’s not listening to women who say “actually I’m OK with this because its showing the next generation they can be whoever they want to be in wrestling.” He doesn’t care because he’s a man who knows more about the UK wrestling scene then wrestlers, he doesn’t care because he knows more about women and their abilities then women do, he doesn’t care because he thinks people are incapable of watching a Intergender match and not take away the message that it is now somehow OK to hit women.
He doesn’t care because 1. He doesn’t really care about this at all he’s just a troll and 2. Because like most people like him he’s too offended for a group he isn’t part of for a view point that is based on a very flimsy bit of ice that he knows he’s right and doesn’t need to talk about it.
That second point I’ve basically covered too.
He acts like if you go to a wrestling show and see Millie McKenzie get booted in the face by Chris Brookes that suddenly you’ll go home and boot your partner in the face. He doesn’t seem concerned that if it wasn’t Millie being booted in the face then it might be Travis Banks and therefore the same person might go home and boot their brother in the face. They also don’t seem to think people will see Millie suplex the hell out of Kay Lee Ray and go home and do it to their sisters.
His whole “I know its the fans at fault…” line of thought does two things. One makes it seem like the fans who enjoy watching two brilliant wrestlers in a match are pro male on female violence, which they aren’t, and two makes it seem like he doesn’t trust someone to go to a wrestling show and not be influenced into becoming a violent menace to society afterwards.
Both trains of thought are wrong.
Like any other match two people have agreed to go out there and wrestle. They’ve made a match that they both agree too and feel comfortable with, it will have the same risks as any other match they wrestle that week, they’ll go out and do it with full consent. Fans who pay money will go see it, if they don’t like Intergender matches they might just automatically not like it, they might have their minds changed when they see two amazing athletes square off, they might use it as a pee break, it doesn’t matter because it’ll be one match on the card that they paid money to see. Those who enjoy the match are just as likely to go home and beat up anyone around them then deciding that seeing a Intergender match is OK-ing violence to women.
The fans are not to blame, there is nothing to blame anyone for.
My feelings on Intergender wrestling hasn’t changed as you can see, in fact being introduced to women wrestlers like Jinny, Millie, Kay Lee Ray and so on by watching more shows from up north (PROGRESS, DEFIANT, IPW…) its strengthened my opinion.
As long as they are treated with respect, as long as the performers make it believable, as long as you aren’t a dick that watches wrestling and thinks its teaching you a life lesson in what is right and wrong in reality, then Intergender wrestling is fine. Its great in fact.
Some of my favourite matches have been Intergender matches, in the last few Pride shows I went to down here there was at least one that possibly stole the night and lasted in my memory more then anything else on that card did. Women can wrestle men because wrestling isn’t ultra realistic, it isn’t a competitive real sport like UFC, wrestling is about telling a story and by saying that you can’t believe a woman can stand toe-to-toe with a man in a wrestling match you are doing them a disservice.
ANY match could be great or awful depending on how it plays out. It doesn’t matter who the wrestlers in it are. Backlash proved you can have the best men against the best men and we’ll get 5 minutes of headlocks and fall asleep.
As long as the story is there, the two wrestling are working to produce a great match it doesn’t matter if its male v male, female v female or male v female it’ll be a great match.
Telling wrestlers they CAN’T do it because women CAN’T do something you believe they can’t do is sexist. You are basically telling women they can’t do something because you don’t believe they have the ability TO TELL A STORY AND WORK TO THE SAME DEGREE AS THEIR MALE COMPETITOR. You can wrap it up all you want but again wrestling is not UFC, it isn’t boxing. ALL wrestlers have to work together to get half the crazy shit they do to work and as long as the two people in the ring go out there and kick ass it doesn’t matter whose ass they are kicking they deserve respect for doing it.
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE between not LIKING Intergender wrestling and claiming with no real facts that Intergender wrestling is damaging anything (it isn’t) or is wrong in any shape or form. You can dislike Intergender wrestling all you want, I avoid Death Matches even though it means I miss out on Havoc matches because I cringe during them and feel uncomfortable, I tend to skip out on mix-tag matches (I know funny right?) because I find its the same story told each time and they are boring because nothing new happens (loved that Rousey got all up in Hunters face at Mania) I don’t tell people they can’t do theses matches or claim they are destroying the business because as long as the competitors agree to them, as long as people enjoy them who the fuck am I to judge?
I mean seriously… You have a problem with Intergender matches and not Death Matches? I’m much more worried some weirdo would try and throw me at one of those tube lights after watching a Death Match then I am some idiot trying to deck me after a Intergender match. Let me tell you I am big enough and ugly enough to shake that off and kick him in the fucking balls too I don’t need you telling me I couldn’t defend myself in a fight.
I might not have made my point any clearer to be honest, I doubt I ever will because I get distracted very easily making random points in the middle of random points. My main point is don’t claim something is doing something it isn’t just because you don’t like it, and don’t feel the need to speak up for women when they don’t want you too and call you out for doing so. Wrestling isn’t real, when a corpse has been walking around wrestling for 2 decades and is the most loved part of the biggest company in the world trying to equate wrestling with reality just makes no sense. Much as I like the Undertaker lets face it if he lived the gimmick he’d lost every casket match because that is where he would be.
In general just get over yourself and ignore things you don’t like in wrestling that others, including the people you are so hell bent on talking for, enjoy.